Curse

distilledwill · Apr 08, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Looking forward to trying this build out, just need to Artificier and Shield up my Gwen then I'll give some feedback!

cyber88 · Apr 08, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Already using Castigation Signet, look at the revised build here:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...10&postcount=3

I should have just changed my OP, my bad. Castigation works on casters too.

No space for Rage Signet since it is a 7-Signet build with one slot for mantra of inscriptions.

I am curious, do heroes use Signet of Rage correctly? For example, do they cast it only on warrior monsters? I doubt they use it correctly, which was why I didn't include it.

This is a low energy build, so I would hate to make it more energy dependent, and decrease signet count further by adding a 10e energy skill (in a non-Artificer smiter build maybe but not this). MoI is more necessary.

No need for Ether Signet, as the only skill that needs energy there is Mantra of Inscriptions, since this is a 7-signet build, but MoI lasts for a quite awhile. There are signets in the build that depletes energy (i.e. Purge Signet and Signet of Disenchantment) but the trick is, even if you have 0 energy, they still work as intended.

There is a danger that you can have 0 energy just before MoI runs out so you can't re-cast MoI for a short while, this is highly unlikely but still possible. If that unlikely situation happens, hopefully, the mesmer's natural regen and castigation signet would bring the energy back up.

One limitation on Purge Signet, heroes tend to only use it when multiple conditions exist on an ally even though it gets rid of hexes too. Not a big deal, as you can still micro-manage a little, if that bothers you.

Actually, the AI is still too "idiot" to differentiate between war mobs & non war mobs. I made that suggest with your previous bar. Looking at your revised bar..... i would suggest to take out purge signet & signet of disenchantment & put in signet of rage & hex eater signet.

If you would want disenchantments, spells usually work better & more effective unless you are trying to remove spellbreaker which is rarely the case. Signet of rage will allow you to increase your dps without sacrificing your armor. Also, there won't be an issue of no energy when you need to recast MOI

As for purge signet. the same principle applies. There are spells can you can bring to cover conditions removal area. Most of these conditions can usually be outhealed or it won't last long & this can be covered by your healer henchies/heroes. It is usually the hex removal that is a pain. Since you are running MOI, hex eater signet will allow you to remove a hex from multiple allies more quickly thus solving your issue with zero energy when u need to cast MOI. This not only nets you energy & it can help relieve pressure for your monks. Since your mesmer hero's armor is more then a tank. Going up to mobs to use it won't be an issue as it is not a squishie anymore.

DarkSpirit · Apr 08, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber88

Actually, the AI is still too "idiot" to differentiate between war mobs & non war mobs. I made that suggest with your previous bar. Looking at your revised bar..... i would suggest to take out purge signet & signet of disenchantment & put in signet of rage & hex eater signet.

If you would want disenchantments, spells usually work better & more effective unless you are trying to remove spellbreaker which is rarely the case. Signet of rage will allow you to increase your dps without sacrificing your armor.

Since you said that "the AI is still too "idiot" to differentiate between war mobs & non war mobs", then all the more I shouldn't bring Signet of Rage as the AI will not be able to make full use of it. And the damage is quite pathetic if it is used on a monster without any adrenaline skills:

Description: Target foe takes 10...34 holy damage and +5...17 holy damage for each adrenaline skill that foe has.

Signet of disenchantment has a relatively short recharge (for a signet) and makes a good enchant removal, no matter what enchantment is up. But if you really dont need an enchant removal, feel free to replace it.

Quote:

As for purge signet. the same principle applies. There are spells can you can bring to cover conditions removal area. Most of these conditions can usually be outhealed or it won't last long & this can be covered by your healer henchies/heroes. It is usually the hex removal that is a pain. Since you are running MOI, hex eater signet will allow you to remove a hex from multiple allies. This not only nets you energy & it can help relieve pressure for your monks. Since your mesmer hero's armor is more then a tank. Going up to mobs to use it won't be an issue as it is not a squishie anymore.

Purge Signet removes ALL conditions PLUS hexes from a target ally from range. Conditions can be more devastating than hexes in general (think of blind on your physical and dazed on your casters). Purge Signet is good in a signet build because we dont need to care about available energy. And because we dont care about our energy, Purge Signet would still do its job to get rid of ALL conditions and hexes even after we have reached 0 energy.

cyber88 · Apr 08, 2008, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Since you said that "the AI is still too "idiot" to differentiate between war mobs & non war mobs", then all the more I shouldn't bring Signet of Rage as the AI will not be able to make full use of it:

Description: Target foe takes 10...34 holy damage and +5...17 holy damage for each adrenaline skill that foe has.

Signet of disenchantment has a relatively short recharge (for a signet) and makes a good enchant removal, no matter what enchantment is up. But if you really dont need an enchant removal, feel free to replace it.

Purge Signet removes ALL conditions PLUS hexes from a target ally from range. Conditions can be more devastating than hexes in general (think of blind on your physical and dazed on your casters). Purge Signet is good in a signet build because we dont need to care about available energy. And because we dont care about our energy, Purge Signet would still do its job to get rid of ALL conditions and hexes even after we have reached 0 energy.

I see. Well, it boils down to personal preference then.

DarkSpirit · Apr 08, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber88

I see. Well, it boils down to personal preference then.

Yes it does.

When we post builds like that, we make very general assumptions on your character and your team composition. It is up to you guys to adapt it best for the PvE area and for your team.

For myself, I usually replace Sab's SS N/Rt with this build, so I need an enchant removal since the SS N/Rt has Rip Enchantment.

distilledwill · Apr 09, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Yes it does.

When we post builds like that, we make very general assumptions on your character and your team composition. It is up to you guys to adapt it best for the PvE area and for your team.

For myself, I usually replace Sab's SS N/Rt with this build, so I need an enchant removal since the SS N/Rt has Rip Enchantment.

I replace the N/Rt healer in the build and it works really nicely. I tried it in HM Assault the Stronghold and the build held up really well against the Charr mobs. Havent even fully kitted out the hero yet.

Thanks for posting it.

DarkSpirit · Apr 10, 2008, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

I replace the N/Rt healer in the build and it works really nicely. I tried it in HM Assault the Stronghold and the build held up really well against the Charr mobs. Havent even fully kitted out the hero yet.

Thanks for posting it.

You are welcome.

I have also been experimenting on a HM Artificer build for a human mesmer. A human Artificer mesmer is more flexible since she can weapon-switch, for energy, to use non-signet skills (e.g. casting heavy enchantments that would keep her energy at zero to provide huge party buffs) when needed. But a hero mesmer, is undeniably a faster interrupter so I tend to let heroes do what they are best at, and leave the rest for the human player.

distilledwill · Apr 10, 2008, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

You are welcome.

I have also been experimenting on a HM Artificer build for a human mesmer. A human Artificer mesmer is more flexible since she can weapon-switch, for energy, to use non-signet skills (e.g. casting heavy enchantments that would keep her energy at zero to provide huge party buffs) when needed. But a hero mesmer, is undeniably a faster interrupter so I tend to let heroes do what they are best at, and leave the rest for the human player.

Ive just made a mesmer for that very purpose, I'm yet to get all the skills for the build but Ive got high hopes. In combination with another Artificer Mesmer hero I feel a player Artificer could be quite effective. As long as they learn to chain the knockdowns.

DarkSpirit · Apr 10, 2008, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Ive just made a mesmer for that very purpose, I'm yet to get all the skills for the build but Ive got high hopes. In combination with another Artificer Mesmer hero I feel a player Artificer could be quite effective. As long as they learn to chain the knockdowns.

Cool! Do post it when you are ready.

I am sure the mesmers at the mesmer forum, would be very interested.

distilledwill · Apr 11, 2008, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Just a couple of tweaks which Ive noticed having considered how the build functions:

Mantra of Inscriptions is a stance and so the hero (and any other artificer mesmer) would benefit more from a stance shield than from a run of the mill +30 -5 (20%) one.

Id like to play with the attributes. I imagine the hero would benefit from a higher Inspiration as they would not be able to manage their energy as well as the player and so would benefit from a longer duration on the mantra. Similarly, their reactions are so good that you would want them to benefit more from the Inspiration line interupts in the build ([skill=text]Leech Signet[/skill]).
The player Artificer, on the other hand, might benefit more from a higher smiting prayers, leading them to be more offensive, as their abilities as an interupter arent as good as the Hero.

What type of wand do you use? Im yet to get a half decent one for either my hero or my character.

DarkSpirit · Apr 11, 2008, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Just a couple of tweaks which Ive noticed having considered how the build functions:

Mantra of Inscriptions is a stance and so the hero (and any other artificer mesmer) would benefit more from a stance shield than from a run of the mill +30 -5 (20%) one.

Yes I mentioned that in my post with the build too. The inscription is "Run for your Life!".

Quote:

Id like to play with the attributes. I imagine the hero would benefit from a higher Inspiration as they would not be able to manage their energy as well as the player and so would benefit from a longer duration on the mantra.

Benefiting from a longer duration of the mantra is good but besides casting the mantra, you dont really need any energy. The player has even more flexibility than the hero since she can weapon swap to a +energy set, cast the mantra, and swap back. The player can be at 0 energy throughout the entire battle and still work flawlessly even using [purge signet] and [signet of disenchantment] with this build.

As for the hero, at level 13 inspiration it already lasts for 82 seconds, which is usually longer than most battles.

Quote:

Similarly, their reactions are so good that you would want them to benefit more from the Inspiration line interupts in the build ([skill=text]Leech Signet[/skill]).

I omitted [Leech Signet] from the build because heroes dont use it right. I suspect that they only use it to interrupt spells, not skills.

Quote:

The player Artificer, on the other hand, might benefit more from a higher smiting prayers, leading them to be more offensive, as their abilities as an interupter arent as good as the Hero.

What type of wand do you use? Im yet to get a half decent one for either my hero or my character.

I dont think the mods on the wand really matter since the bar doesn't contain any spells. You can even use a "Brawns over Brains" (15% -5e) inscription on the wand for more damage.

HariTec · Apr 11, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

What an interesting thread -

On a related note - I have never found a build to make good use of Symbolic Strike

Consider /W with six signets - every four adrenaline you could generate a +60 damage symbolic strike and still have mantra of inscriptions and six signets ? Note that Symbolic strike is a No Attribute skill so you don't have to worry about skill points?

Pop a few attribute points in strength - Dolyak Signet + Strength shield +full artificers - decent tank? Get rid of smiting and go with FC, Insp and Dom?

Antithesis · Apr 11, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by HariTec

Pop a few attribute points in strength - Dolyak Signet + Strength shield +full artificers - decent tank? Get rid of smiting and go with FC, Insp and Dom?

A Mes can't put points into strength.

DarkSpirit · Apr 12, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by HariTec

What an interesting thread -

On a related note - I have never found a build to make good use of Symbolic Strike

Consider /W with six signets - every four adrenaline you could generate a +60 damage symbolic strike and still have mantra of inscriptions and six signets ? Note that Symbolic strike is a No Attribute skill so you don't have to worry about skill points?

Pop a few attribute points in strength - Dolyak Signet + Strength shield +full artificers - decent tank? Get rid of smiting and go with FC, Insp and Dom?

Like what Antithesis said, a secondary warrior can't pump points into strength. And there are also no spells in the warrior's strength attribute line for a [Signet of Illusions] mesmer to benefit from either. Otherwise there can be more interesting builds along the Me/W line.

If you use symbolic strike, you probably need a decent weapon and may need to pump points into mastery since you would actually need to be hitting so [Illusionary Weaponry] wouldn't help out either.

3 out of the 4 signets in the warrior class are along the strength attribute line. A Me/A Artificer build however, may hold more promise.

Kiluna · Apr 15, 2008, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Looks really interesting build! I've been thinking between Mesmer and Ritualist for my last charracter slot and this build makes the decision between them even harder

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Wield a Shield, for more armor, with +30hp and Run for your Life inscription since you dont need that much energy. This gives a total of 81AL (from armor) + 8 (from shield) = 89 AL and you get the +30hp and -2 damage reduction from the shield too.

Wouldn't of Devotion work better than of Fortitude on shield? That would be extra 15 hp in stance, though stance removal would mean you have +0.

DarkSpirit · Apr 15, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiluna

Looks really interesting build! I've been thinking between Mesmer and Ritualist for my last charracter slot and this build makes the decision between them even harder

Wouldn't of Devotion work better than of Fortitude on shield? That would be extra 15 hp in stance, though stance removal would mean you have +0.

I'll leave that as a personal preference.

Fortitude is a more popular choice since you have an unconditional hp and the difference is only 15. But I suppose Devotion can work too.

There is a slight risk of the mesmer hero not having the 10e needed during mid-battle to recast Mantra but since the mantra lasts 82s and there is no skill there that would keep her energy to be at 0 throughout the battle (e.g. [Holy Wrath]), the risk is low. For a human mesmer, you can always weapon switch to a +energy set temporarily, if you need to recast mantra.

distilledwill · Apr 16, 2008, 09:08 AM // 09:08

How can more armour hurt? It can't! This new variation features more support, but no damage:

[build prof=Me/P name="Cautery Artificer" ins=10+1+1 mot=10 fas=10+1 dom=5+1][Cautery Signet][Signet Of Synergy][Remedy Signet][Leech Signet][Hex Eater Signet][Signet Of Distraction][Mantra Of Inscriptions][Signet Of Return][/build]

This allows you to use a motivation shield and use one more signet for even MORE armour, and you have a reusable res. Fun times.

This is just theory atm, I'll try it out tonight.

Have fun!

DarkSpirit · Apr 16, 2008, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

How can more armour hurt? It can't! This new variation features more support, but no damage:

[build prof=Me/P name="Cautery Artificer" ins=10+1+1 mot=10 fas=10+1 dom=5+1][Cautery Signet][Signet Of Synergy][Remedy Signet][Leech Signet][Hex Eater Signet][Signet Of Distraction][Mantra Of Inscriptions][Signet Of Return][/build]

This allows you to use a motivation shield and use one more signet for even MORE armour, and you have a reusable res. Fun times.

This is just theory atm, I'll try it out tonight.

Have fun!

My build already has 7 signets so there is no increase there but it would be nice to use a motivation shield for 8 more armor. Not a fan of [Leech Signet] since heroes dont use it right. Let me know how well it works.

Shai-hulud · Apr 16, 2008, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Some things I think:
-artificer + signets is great
-hero interrupts are great
-smiting is bad except vs undead, the signets are more to add a little bit of damage on a hero monk or to deal major damage vs undead - in all other cases I say leave the damage to the eles, necro's, warriors, etc.

I would change the build to the Me/P version or a Me/X version with more interrupts. On the other hand, think of a W/Me with the same signets, it will have just as much armor (or more) and it can make use of symbolic strike for instance - although this has other (in some cases better) uses, I do think that the smiting support damage should be changed to something that helps the team more.

DarkSpirit · Apr 16, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shai-hulud

I would change the build to the Me/P version or a Me/X version with more interrupts. On the other hand, think of a W/Me with the same signets, it will have just as much armor (or more) and it can make use of symbolic strike for instance - although this has other (in some cases better) uses, I do think that the smiting support damage should be changed to something that helps the team more.

A signet W/Me would just have as much armor as a non-signet W/Me since warriors dont use Artificer insignia. You can search the Warrior forums for ideas on symbolic strike builds, they are not viewed to be the greatest but they can be "ok". Personally, I think mesmers synergize with signets better than warriors do, besides warrior heroes are generally not very effective.

You can replace one of the signets with Strength of Honor enchantment. As long as you have the energy regen, you can cast it on an ally.

I dont consider smiting to be weak, considering it has knockdown, which also interrupts (if the target can be knocked down), ignores armor, and double damage against undead.